What is your role at Avison Young?

Director, Building Consultancy. I'm a Building Surveyor by background.

How did you get into commercial real estate?

I always loved old buildings and I originally wanted to be an architect. When I started looking at careers and further study more seriously I decided Building Surveying was a better fit so that's what I went for.

What does inclusion mean to you?

For me inclusion is an open door, not a closed one, and an invitation to step into the room. It’s an assumption of yes you can, rather than no you can't. It's about making sure that people have a seat at the table and they are given space to share their thoughts and have a voice. And that means everyone. I think we're still in a world where lots of young people are raised with idealism about opportunity and the power of hard work but are then coming into the workplace and finding that the professional world doesn't live up to that and feel that doors are not open.

What's an impactful way that professionals can be an ally for underrepresented groups in the workplace?

Be conscious of unconscious biases and how they manifest in the workplace. The sessions last year touched on this and I think it's really important that we recognise these in ourselves and also take an active stance when we recognise them in others' behaviours.

What has been your experience being in an underrepresented group in a historically non-diverse industry?

Well, firstly I think I've been very lucky. I joined a business (GVA) and team as a graduate that turned out to be a very good fit for me and I've been really pleased that that has continued since becoming part of Avison Young. I've never felt anything but included in the team I work in and my career development and progression has been supported. That said it hasn't all been rosy.

When I was applying for jobs out of university I had a few rejections. I didn't think much of it until my tutor sat me down for a chat and suggested I needed to put a photo on my applications. Why? Because my name might be confusing people. When I got to interview stage not only was I a woman (apparently not obvious from my name) I was also black (not Chinese). The theory was I was missing out on opportunities because of the time it took for interviewers to adjust to the person who entered the room! I didn't add the photo. If the interview panel needed to "adjust to the person in the room" I probably didn't need to work with those people.

Once I was in the professional world I had to get comfortable with feeling uncomfortable. Walking into rooms and almost always being the only black person and the only woman took some getting used to. And when you're the youngest as well - it felt hard to be taken seriously at first. But confidence in your abilities and your knowledge is really important. I'm so glad now to see representation of women seems to be improving and I'm looking forward to the day that I can day the same for representation of black people too.

Tell us about the accomplishments you're most proud of across your career.

There are lots of individual jobs I've done that I've been proud of of course but I'm really proud to have built a career in this industry - full stop. There were a lot of people who tried to deter me from it at school and even once I was at university and of course I have come across people in the industry who have been less than positive. So I'm glad to be here and to show that a black woman can succeed and progress in this arena. With hindsight I didn't really have a plan coming into this world (I thought I did, but really I had no clue) - it's been a great ride so far and I'm excited to see what's next.